Who were the bad guys in the crusades?

Kirjutas Tundy, 18.10.2015 at 23:06

Kirjutas Ghostface, 18.10.2015 at 15:44

People dont really know the difference between jihad and crusade...
crusade were invasions from the catholics to the muslims,pagans and orthodox
jihad is a defensive war where all those who are able muslims are called to defend their nation.

how old are you? are you muslim? do you even know history? do you know how islam spread? do you know how the roman empire and classical civilizations died? classical civilization died because muslim raided coastal lands in the Mediterranean and people had to move in-land and build fortifications (castles are the direct result of muslims and pagans invading europe). Muslims killed the Mediterranean sea trade, kidnapped people and sold them into slavery, Christians never did this to muslims, Christians never invaded Muslims, the crusades was the only exception and that was more than 300 years later after constant muslim raids and invasions.

am orthodox christian and as far as i know the dark age had its begginings when the germanic barbarians and huns invaded rome ( 476 AD ) , a lot of barbarian nations were created like the Vandals ( were not muslim ) and historians say that those events in the 5th century took europe back a millenium in terms of advancement. Crusaders werent only invasions , there was the reconquista , the teutonic order etc

Remove kebab

Kirjutas Tundy, 18.10.2015 at 23:18

Kirjutas The Tactician, 18.10.2015 at 15:33

-

nice appeal to emotion, nice evading of my evidence, nice changing the topic.

people like you disgust me, i fucking hate when you try to appease everybody and refuse to accept that your people did wrong. You made it clear in your post that you will not accept any evidence that i provide to you, very well i am not impressed, coming from somebody who mutilates its woman.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3076518/Shocking-figures-reveal-92-cent-married-women-Egypt-suffered-female-genital-mutilation.html
http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/fgm_prevalence_egypt/en/

but of course, its only propaganda by the west,

im gonna do like you now ready:

nice saying i evaded my evidence when i replied to all your points, nice appealing to emotions, nice appealing to disgusting disgust, and nice taking me off topic again.

now to my (final) reply to your going-even-more-off-topic-with-hate point,

the first link is just biased and showing things in a bad way with the picture and their phrases. Yes, if you don't already know in our religion it is recommended to get circumcised. It promotes cleanliness and hygiene. Islam promotes cleanliness and hygiene. You can see the connection. If the procedure is taken outside of the medical boundaries then it's an act of ignorance and uneducation.

I'm a Muslim, you are someone against Islam. I don't attack other faiths and beliefs, and you do. I live happily, and I don't know if you can say the same or not. Now stop taking this even more off topic (towards boohoo Muslims are bad), and let me continue the works of my life happily. I will anyway.

I really don't get why the west focuses so much on us. Maybe they want our resources, or maybe they are just directing people's eyes and ears towards as so much as you don't have to look at yourself. I really do wonder how people are born into discriminations and don't question themselves for a second.

>good guys
>bad guys

Nice 1st grade understanding of history. I recommend comic books if you enjoy stories with good guys and bad guys.

Kirjutas Viruslegion, 18.10.2015 at 21:37

Holy Land was part of the Byzantine Empire, stronk history degree

Egypt was part of the Turkish Empire. Strong history knowledge.

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 19.10.2015 at 12:09

Kirjutas Viruslegion, 18.10.2015 at 21:37

Holy Land was part of the Byzantine Empire, stronk history degree

Egypt was part of the Turkish Empire. Strong history knowledge.

the byzantines(romans) were there 1000 years before the turks.

op history knowledge

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:17

the byzantines(romans) were there 1000 years before the turks.

op history knowledge

Egyptians built pyramids 1000 years before byzantines(romans) were there.

strong historia knowledge

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 19.10.2015 at 12:25

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:17

the byzantines(romans) were there 1000 years before the turks.

op history knowledge

Egyptians built pyramids 1000 years before byzantines(romans) were there.

strong historia knowledge

irrelevant, the egyptians got conquered by macedonia. Egypt was the bread basket of the empire, egypt was a huge and important world power when it was on the hands of the romans.

Besides, the romans were heirs to the egyptian kingdom by blood

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:31

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 19.10.2015 at 12:25

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:17

the byzantines(romans) were there 1000 years before the turks.

op history knowledge

Egyptians built pyramids 1000 years before byzantines(romans) were there.

strong historia knowledge

irrelevant, the egyptians got conquered by macedonia. Egypt was the bread basket of the empire, egypt was a huge and important world power when it was on the hands of the romans.

Besides, the romans were heirs to the egyptian kingdom by blood

Just like virusretard you ignorant too. He is saying egypt was under ottoman rule during ottoman empire and you go back years ago and talk about what Alexander conquered. Youre such retard lol

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:31

irrelevant, the egyptians got conquered by macedonia. Egypt was the bread basket of the empire, egypt was a huge and important world power when it was on the hands of the romans.

Besides, the romans were heirs to the egyptian kingdom by blood

You started with irrelevant replies, i'm just following. Mongolia occupied China in medieval era you know.

Kirjutas AlBoZzZ, 19.10.2015 at 12:35

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:31

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 19.10.2015 at 12:25

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:17

the byzantines(romans) were there 1000 years before the turks.

op history knowledge

Egyptians built pyramids 1000 years before byzantines(romans) were there.

strong historia knowledge

irrelevant, the egyptians got conquered by macedonia. Egypt was the bread basket of the empire, egypt was a huge and important world power when it was on the hands of the romans.

Besides, the romans were heirs to the egyptian kingdom by blood

Just like virusretard you ignorant too. He is saying egypt was under ottoman rule during ottoman empire and you go back years ago and talk about what Alexander conquered. Youre such retard lol

and how the fuck is a dyfunctional empire relevant during the crusades? learn how to read and you will understand what i was actually saying, egypt was what it was because it was roman, then the saracens invaded the roman empire and raided and raped the population of the Mediterranean, the muslims where savages, this is why the crusades happened, it was christian revenge for all the atrocities your people did for 500 years.

it takes a ignorant person to believe that islam is peaceful and did nothing wrong. Islam = war, islam = rape.

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 19.10.2015 at 12:44

Kirjutas Tundy, 19.10.2015 at 12:31

irrelevant, the egyptians got conquered by macedonia. Egypt was the bread basket of the empire, egypt was a huge and important world power when it was on the hands of the romans.

Besides, the romans were heirs to the egyptian kingdom by blood

You started with irrelevant replies, i'm just following. Mongolia occupied China in medieval era you know.

no, stop spitting bullshit

you told viruz legion that the crusades where greedy for invading the holy land because the muslims only invaded spain and anatolia, he replied with the fact that the holy land was roman just like all the land that the arabs invaded, yet you went full retarded and claimed egypt was from the ottoman empire, which is a lie, egypt was and should be of the roman empire at the time. thats why i replied with how the roman empire was a 1000 years before the ottomans. yet you went full retarded and tried to slide the topic with how chinese and mongols blablabla.

Kirjutas Tundy, 18.10.2015 at 23:00

Kirjutas Viruslegion, 18.10.2015 at 21:40

Kirjutas Ghostface, 18.10.2015 at 15:44

jihad is a defensive war

muslims defensively took all of north africa and middle east from the romans, and defensively invaded the persians, and defensively invaded the balkans, anatolia and spain.

remember when they defensively killed all the Armenians and Greeks in Anatolia?

Kirjutas Ghostface, 19.10.2015 at 07:38

Kirjutas Tundy, 18.10.2015 at 23:06

Kirjutas Ghostface, 18.10.2015 at 15:44

People dont really know the difference between jihad and crusade...
crusade were invasions from the catholics to the muslims,pagans and orthodox
jihad is a defensive war where all those who are able muslims are called to defend their nation.

how old are you? are you muslim? do you even know history? do you know how islam spread? do you know how the roman empire and classical civilizations died? classical civilization died because muslim raided coastal lands in the Mediterranean and people had to move in-land and build fortifications (castles are the direct result of muslims and pagans invading europe). Muslims killed the Mediterranean sea trade, kidnapped people and sold them into slavery, Christians never did this to muslims, Christians never invaded Muslims, the crusades was the only exception and that was more than 300 years later after constant muslim raids and invasions.

am orthodox christian and as far as i know the dark age had its begginings when the germanic barbarians and huns invaded rome ( 476 AD ) , a lot of barbarian nations were created like the Vandals ( were not muslim ) and historians say that those events in the 5th century took europe back a millenium in terms of advancement. Crusaders werent only invasions , there was the reconquista , the teutonic order etc

so the eastern empire (mainly intact) just happens to collapse on its own, and all of its land just so happens to end up in the hands of muslims? and also it just happens that the karlings(frankish empire) had to shift to feudalism because the roman way of economics was impossible because the sea was no longer friendly, all the trade routes were dangerous and closed by muslim pirates.

i suppose all the doctumented cases of raids and slavery are just made up, and that the reconquista was an evil act of the visigoths, how dare they reconquer land that was taken from them?

we went to the feudal ages not because the barbarians in the west were stupid or ignorant., but because maritimal trade was no longer possible with the muslims taking over the african coast and raiding the fuck out of the sea.

do you want me to provide you with examples? take a look at how the romans lost south italy and the islands of crete and cyprus. oh vey, they converted to islam by magic

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 19.10.2015 at 12:09

Kirjutas Viruslegion, 18.10.2015 at 21:37

Holy Land was part of the Byzantine Empire, stronk history degree

Egypt was part of the Turkish Empire. Strong history knowledge.

Also Tito, I don't know why you're talking about Egypt when the Holy Land is Israel

Reading tunder's and virus' comments is like watching CNN about Russia

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 19.10.2015 at 13:38

Reading tunder's and virus' comments is like watching CNN about Russia

unless you're contributing to the discussion your insults are not needed

Comparing muslims and christian crusaders, one needs to have only minimum historical literacy to conclude muslims were the bad guys.

Thats not to say crusaders were good, crusaders were excessively violent, they pillaged, looted and raped even christian nuns and they backstabed the Byzantines, hell, they even sacked Constantinople. But in their defense they had to fight monsters, barbarian fanatic muslim tribes, slaughtering their way around Europe. Their cause was just, islamist advance needed to be kept in check and not a single historian can deny this. It actually wasnt a quest or a cause, it was a duty. Or atleast should have been regarded as one, by all Europeans. Unfortunately they learned the hard way (ottoman empire)

Dont forget it was the Byzantine emperor who started it, by asking the pope for help because of the Turks advancement. To all those who support the muslims of the time, keep in mind that christian lands and people had been the subjects of attack, conquest and occupation by muslim armies for 400 years, prior to the crusades. Egypt, Jerusaleem, Spain, stolen, Constantinople attacked, France attacked, Italy attacked, Rome itself sacked. The crusades started off as a just cause, there is no doubt about that. It was a pillgrimage to the holy land, unavoidably militarized, because of the obscene muslim terror in the area.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 19.10.2015 at 15:28

Thats not to say crusaders were good, crusaders were excessively violent, they pillaged, looted and raped even christian nuns and they backstabed the Byzantines, hell, they even sacked Constantinople.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 19.10.2015 at 15:28

muslims were the bad guys.

PUTIN PLEASE CLOSE BORDERS AND SHUT DOWN INTERNET I DONT FEEL SAFE ANYMORE

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 20.10.2015 at 13:03

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 19.10.2015 at 15:28

Thats not to say crusaders were good, crusaders were excessively violent, they pillaged, looted and raped even christian nuns and they backstabed the Byzantines, hell, they even sacked Constantinople.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 19.10.2015 at 15:28

muslims were the bad guys.

PUTIN PLEASE CLOSE BORDERS AND SHUT DOWN INTERNET I DONT FEEL SAFE ANYMORE

are you confused because i am unbiased and always say the truth? do you want me to paint only muslims bad and christians good, because my interest lies in the latter? well no, when turks conquered holy land they massacred jews and christians and even their own, muslims, but that doesnt mean i am not going to mention that when christian crusaders took it back, they also massacred muslims and jews. But the real question isnt who was more evil, the real question was if crusades were justified and the answer is pretty clear. They very much were.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 20.10.2015 at 13:48

are you confused because i am unbiased and always say the truth? do you want me to paint muslims bad and christians good, because my interest lies in the latter? well no, when turks conquered holy land they massacred jews and christians and even their own, muslims, but that doesnt mean i am not going to mention that when christian crusaders took it back, they also massacred muslims and jews. But the real question isnt who was more evil, the real question was if crusades were justified and the answer is pretty clear. They very much were.

Conquest without contribution is insignificant - Russian proverb

When Muslims conquered Spain they opened schools, academies, hospitals, libraries, castles and forts, allowing all languages from Arab to Spanish, Greek, Latin and Persian. Had Jews and Christians working in offices, decision bodies if they had knowledge. They had meritocracy.

> Spanish knights and peasants destroy everything after they 'liberate' Spain from Islam, from hospitals and schools to farms and villages.... CHRISTIAN.

So tell me, how exactly was that liberation of Spanish people when bringing them to Dark Age and inquisition?

----

> When capturing Jerusalem 1099 crusaders slaughtered every single moslem. There was blood to the knees... in the Holy Land.

> Saladin create peace and trade deals with Crusaders
> Crusaders accept it and after few years start the war
> Lose war and leave Holy Land
> muslim evil

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 20.10.2015 at 14:03

When Muslims conquered Spain they opened schools, academies, hospitals, libraries, castles and forts, allowing all languages from Arab to Spanish, Greek, Latin and Persian. Had Jews and Christians working in offices, decision bodies if they had knowledge. They had meritocracy.

> Spanish knights and peasants destroy everything after they 'liberate' Spain from Islam, from hospitals and schools to farms and villages.... CHRISTIAN.
So tell me, how exactly was that liberation of Spanish people when bringing them to Dark Age and inquisition?

double standard much? how can you be such a hypocrite man. you accuse Europe for colonization and America for clearing its natives and imperialism for their modern actions and yet you give muslim conquests a free pass? Are you serious? Talk about anti-western brainwashing.

Moreso, what you said above is total bullshit and fabrication. Source for these? Moors ruled for hundreds of years and there was a small period of prosperity near the end, thats all. Christians were always considered second class citizens, paid higher taxes and were discriminated against and persecuted. Religious freedom existed because the MAJORITY of the population was CHRISTIAN. They had to allow them their faith obviously, otherwise more revolts would spring, they didnt have a fucking choice, its a no brainer. Moreso you forget the Moors were actually invaders and had forced themselves on another country. You also forget if Martel didnt stop them they would have gone all the way to West and Northern Europe. You also forget to mention the Turks who came after and slaughtered everybody. They were muslims too werent they? So are you going to go to more offtopic now, in a futile effort to defend muslims? nd more importandly, are you going to continue busting our balls with Hitler's genoside, while ignoring greek, hindu,zoroastrianists and armenian, among others, muslim genosides?

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 20.10.2015 at 14:03

> When capturing Jerusalem 1099 crusaders slaughtered every single moslem. There was blood to the knees... in the Holy Land.

lie. blatant lie and complete fabrication. First of all for the blood to reach the knees , the whole Egypt and Syrian population would have to be inside Jerusaleem at the time. Ridiculous. Crusaders killed 1/3 of the population. Seljuk turks killed literally every single living soul inside Jerusaleem, even muslims.

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 20.10.2015 at 14:03

> Saladin create peace and trade deals with Crusaders
> Crusaders accept it and after few years start the war
> Lose war and leave Holy Land
> muslim evil

Saladin killed tenths of thousands and even enslaved surrendering population that didnt have enough money. He burned and trashed the whole city down, destroyed everything after he took it back, enslaved 15.000 who didnt have money to pay him and it is said even muslim women wept and cried for the loss of the great city. Fuck off.

You are posting here yet......

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 20.10.2015 at 16:35

the other topic was deleted but i had already written my answer. seemed unfair.

with reason*

When Tito stops answering me and Tunder and only answers khal because khal hasn't crushed his argument (yet)

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 20.10.2015 at 15:42

double standard much? how can you be such a hypocrite man. you accuse Europe for colonization and America for clearing its natives and imperialism for their modern actions and yet you give muslim conquests a free pass? Are you serious? Talk about anti-western brainwashing.

I don't support Arab invasion of Europe, but their conquest was different than European conquest of other continents. Arabs build and created opportunity for everyone, no matter what religion or nationality in Spain - Europeans killed every single native they bump into their conquista in Americas while the rest of them died due illness brought by dirty plagued Europeans which native immune system didn't used to.

Arab conquest of Iran - maintained civilized country with schools, libraries, scholars, medicine, hospitals, architecture and planning committees to decide when and where to build infrastructure. Same with Spain.

European conquest of Africa & America & Asia - death, death and more death, genocide, ethnic cleansing (trail of tears proposed by american poltiicians came into LAW), no rights for natives, rights for immigrants, gamblers, criminals and rapists left Europe to escape punishment and settle Americas. Freedom for immigrants, persecution of natives and non-whites, import of slaves, creation of crime, opium business, prostitution.

European occupation of India - stealing Indian resources to build European economies, enslaving Indians to work for Europeans, creating man-made famines to genocide Indians to speed up because sword and bullet is not fast enough in killing Indians. dismantling of Indian businesses, creation of immigrant-occupier business.


So if i had to choose - i'll choose Arab occupied parts of the world. European occupied regions are soaked with blood and death hang in the air. I can imagine the smell of rotten bodies laying around, desecrated bodies.. Makes me wonder why are Europeans so sadist.


That's why i like my country, we bordered India but never attacked it, while some Europe 10,000km away come and enslave India. That's why i don't care for European opinion and lies, because they are the greatest killers in human history. Their propaganda spam how Russia will invade Europe for 100 years and that never happened while their very own european country Germany invaded Europe TWICE, but you wont see them saying sanction Germany, they might invade us. In fact, Russia even liberated Europe in 1814, reaching Paris and defeating Napoleon. But no, that should be forgotten, because we need to maintain 'evil russia' image in the west, so we can continue to enslave, colonize and bring more death. But if those free and neutral countries defend, we will blame them for barbarism, religion and thirdworldism.

Kirjutas Skanderbeg, 21.10.2015 at 10:27

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 20.10.2015 at 15:42

double standard much? how can you be such a hypocrite man. you accuse Europe for colonization and America for clearing its natives and imperialism for their modern actions and yet you give muslim conquests a free pass? Are you serious? Talk about anti-western brainwashing.

I don't support Arab invasion of Europe, but their conquest was different than European conquest of other continents. Arabs build and created opportunity for everyone, no matter what religion or nationality in Spain - Europeans killed every single native they bump into their conquista in Americas while the rest of them died due illness brought by dirty plagued Europeans which native immune system didn't used to.

Arab conquest of Iran - maintained civilized country with schools, libraries, scholars, medicine, hospitals, architecture and planning committees to decide when and where to build infrastructure. Same with Spain.

European conquest of Africa & America & Asia - death, death and more death, genocide, ethnic cleansing (trail of tears proposed by american poltiicians came into LAW), no rights for natives, rights for immigrants, gamblers, criminals and rapists left Europe to escape punishment and settle Americas. Freedom for immigrants, persecution of natives and non-whites, import of slaves, creation of crime, opium business, prostitution.

European occupation of India - stealing Indian resources to build European economies, enslaving Indians to work for Europeans, creating man-made famines to genocide Indians to speed up because sword and bullet is not fast enough in killing Indians. dismantling of Indian businesses, creation of immigrant-occupier business.


So if i had to choose - i'll choose Arab occupied parts of the world. European occupied regions are soaked with blood and death hang in the air. I can imagine the smell of rotten bodies laying around, desecrated bodies.. Makes me wonder why are Europeans so sadist.


That's why i like my country, we bordered India but never attacked it, while some Europe 10,000km away come and enslave India. That's why i don't care for European opinion and lies, because they are the greatest killers in human history. Their propaganda spam how Russia will invade Europe for 100 years and that never happened while their very own european country Germany invaded Europe TWICE, but you wont see them saying sanction Germany, they might invade us. In fact, Russia even liberated Europe in 1814, reaching Paris and defeating Napoleon. But no, that should be forgotten, because we need to maintain 'evil russia' image in the west, so we can continue to enslave, colonize and bring more death. But if those free and neutral countries defend, we will blame them for barbarism, religion and thirdworldism.

First of all its called muslim conquest, it had nothing to do with Arabs as people. And Iran was once one of the most successfull empires before muslims took it down. Hasnt recovered ever since. Its really a shame, all the minds that could have sprung and contribute to humanity, all lost for the glory of allah.

Anyway from now on, everytime you start going offtopic, evading points and bringing new and simply lying by creating your own version of history, i will simply stop responding. Just isnt worth the time.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 21.10.2015 at 11:06

Yes, easiest way to accuse opponent side of lying and end it.

We are two different worlds, we can't coexist and will never agree. If you invade me i'll do my best to destroy you. If i ever try to harm you, promise me you will do your best to destroy me. Until then, lets stay in our regions drawn by borders and not stick our noses into each other business.

Kirjutas AlBoZzZ, 17.10.2015 at 21:07

You go by your relations with a religion or country, i go by the real history here

Can you define real history? How can some thing like this be verified?