God is real

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 23.04.2014 at 20:38

Kirjutas tophat, 23.04.2014 at 16:34

Lol Khalessi, zombie has a great understanding of science, its epistemological claims and its objective to predict various phenomena.

This an answer to (insert my quote here) I never said anything about his understanding of science did?I did say he was educated and intelligent though,so dont make it look like you are replying to things i obviously didnt say.

Kirjutas tophat, 23.04.2014 at 16:34

He is not trying to fool you with complex vocabulary for his benefit or interest, actually, his arguments are well written in the STANDARD form. He's not being over literate by any means-- anyone who knows the basics of science, metaphysics and philosophy can understand the argument he is conveying.

Both science and religion are founded on axioms that cannot be demonstrable... this is true. On this basis, both systems are equal. He is not saying that religion is equal to science on all levels. All of you fail to understand the metaphysical ramifications that religion encompasses, to the contrary of science, which respectively studies the objective reality. Yes it is based on axioms, but science doesn't makes permanent or dogmatic claims because it is under a constant process of falsification.

Fancy words dont impress me nor do they confuse me.Also i am very well aware of the argument he is conveying, which, again, serves no purpose.I understood perfectly clear, have you?If yes, tell me the purpose of this specific argument.

So religion and science are axiomatically unprovable.No shit sherlock.You guys are smart..Tell me how is this information, helpfull in any way, in this thread and in what universe can this mean that religion = science.Are we gonna play with words again?So in simple words so the rest can understand, scientists use science as a process for understanding the physical world and in reality they cannot proove anything.They extensively test all their hypotheses and they advance through DISPROOF.The hypotheses must be refutable also.I understand that this means you can never proove something 100% with science, but you can get as close to the truth as it gets.And zombieyeti stating that science is a hallucination is very insulting to these people's work and it is also a lie.How can this kid sits on his computer all day, calling hallucinated, people that focused their whole life to helping human kind understand things and giving us all the great stuff we have today.If that is not ungratefullness i dont know what is.
Anyway, I have explained the scientific method.Explain to me the religious method now please.How does the people that serve religion evaluate and test their hypotheses.Oh they cant, because they are not refutable?Well bummer.Well what are they doing then?Nothing?
But i heard here that Priests = Scientists and science = religion.But...but if they cant test and evaluate anything they are saying, then they must provide something to humanity, right?right?.What?We know what scientists provide..erm everything around you.From the food on your house, to the computer you use right now, the perfume you are wearing,the car you drive, the road you use to drive on, everything.What do priests provide, that we should regard them as highly as we regard scientists?




.

Kirjutas tophat, 23.04.2014 at 16:34

He's doing you guys a huge favor of informing you, I suggest you let your personal beliefs and biases aside and learn something from him.

First of all that is insulting.Not only to me, but also to everybody here.
Secondly who are these guys and who you accuse of being biased?I told "you guys" before i am not unleashed.Nobody is "we guys" here and dont try to make it seem like any of us here are a group.If anything, the group i see is you two.You have admitted your admiration for this kid you are "defending" since day 1 and in a very weird way i might aswell add, so if anyone is really biased here is you.I have confronted unleashed and Tik tok and others, several times in multiple occasions and i was always unbiased in every conversation about religion,politics,economy etc. So how come i am biased.I demand an explanation here because i dont like being accused of something without proof.

To close this, my earlier post was agressive for a reason and i never attacked his knowledge.I attacked his tactics and character, based on his own actions and being carefull never to get personal, like he did several times.After all he said he despised me, lol.Anyway your intervention was very unwelcomed.

And no, fuckwit. YOU LIE!!!!!!!!!! PROPOSITIONAL LOGIC IS MUCH CLOSER TO TRUTH than SCIENCE!!!!
WHY DO YOU LIE ???????? I have concluded you are an albanian whore who works the lorry stops in Italy based on my analysis of your words and sayings.

Propositional Logic requires only one axiom YOU LIAR and is much closer to TRUTH you ALBANIAN WHORE.
i A thing exists (identity)
i ~ i A thing is identical to itself (reflexivity)
i ~ a . a ~ i A thing which is identical to another thing is equivalent to that thing (symmetry)
Not i ~ Not a Negation of i is equivalent to negation of a (negation and symmetry)
i ~ a, a ~ b . i ~ b If a thing is equivalent to a second thing, and the second thing is equivalent to the third thing, the first thing is equivalent to the third thing (transitivity)
i ~ a, a ~ b. Not i . Not b. Negation and transitivity.
Several pages later
i FALSE Not i: A thing cannot be a nullification of itself.
One whole book later:
1 x 1 = 1
1 + 1 = 2

Propositional Logic is MUCH CLOSER to truth so CLEARLY YOU LIE

A whole book later:
Premise 1: Albanians are invading Italy
Premise 2: Most whores are albanian
Premise 3: whores are stupid
Premise 4: Khal is stupid
Premise 5: Khal's account claims to be italy-based
Conclusion 1: Khal is a whore because it is stupid.
Conclusion 2: As Khal is a stupid whore, it is likely that it is an albanian.
What if we were to find that Khal is Greek, not Italian?
Premise 6: Khal is a liar.
Conclusion 3: Khal is a lying, stupid whore who may or may not be Greek, Italian, or Albanian.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 23.04.2014 at 22:29

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 22:12

My LIFE has been threatened on this thread.

lol poor sweet child.somebody threatened you on the internet.Let me call the fbi now and in the meantime come ill give you a hug

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 22:12

You have engaged in the most vile anti-semitic 'jew baiting' rivaling Tik-Tok.
Bullshit.

lol..
What exactly was "vile" from what i ve said?And what is anti-semitic rivaling Tik-tok?That 4/5 media are controlled by Jewish?Thats is a fact and not an insult.Stop the drama act and the "victim" attitude please. You just gave me the 5% i needed to conclude that you are 99% jewish.

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 22:12

And I do despise you. Small minded, racist, and (unlike Unleashed) clearly someday capable of making a logical and valid argument.
What is there to love?

Thats ok.I dont like that you despise me but i am mature enough to accept that.
But you cant call me rascist.If anything i am the opposite, i just happen to be a realist as well and truth worshipper. Also the fact that i have been beaten and tear gased by real racist and facist police and right wing groups, makes your claim that i am rascist,,,well a joke.

Antisemitism is racism you stupid whore racist.
You were beaten and tear gassed because your pimp threw you out on the street for being an ugly whore who didn't earn any money, of this I am 99% sure.
I was only 94% sure before that you were an ugly whore, but the beating and tear gassing takes me to 99%

For what is there to love in an ugly, stupid, antisemitic racist whore?

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 23:12

Antisemitism is racism you stupid whore racist.
You were beaten and tear gassed because your pimp threw you out on the street for being an ugly whore who didn't earn any money, of this I am 99% sure.
I was only 94% sure before that you were an ugly whore, but the beating and tear gassing takes me to 99%

For what is there to love in an ugly, stupid, antisemitic racist whore?

By the way i am not ugly, do not insult me please.Beatings and tear gas are not evidence enough for you to reach that conclusion (my nose goes a tiny teeny bit on the left but thats all)

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 23.04.2014 at 23:43

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 23:12

Antisemitism is racism you stupid whore racist.
You were beaten and tear gassed because your pimp threw you out on the street for being an ugly whore who didn't earn any money, of this I am 99% sure.
I was only 94% sure before that you were an ugly whore, but the beating and tear gassing takes me to 99%

For what is there to love in an ugly, stupid, antisemitic racist whore?

By the way i am not ugly, do not insult me please.Beatings and tear gas are not evidence enough for you to reach that conclusion (my nose goes a tiny teeny bit on the left but thats all)

Then why did your pimp throw you out on the street?

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 23:56

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 23.04.2014 at 23:43

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 23:12

Antisemitism is racism you stupid whore racist.
You were beaten and tear gassed because your pimp threw you out on the street for being an ugly whore who didn't earn any money, of this I am 99% sure.
I was only 94% sure before that you were an ugly whore, but the beating and tear gassing takes me to 99%

For what is there to love in an ugly, stupid, antisemitic racist whore?

By the way i am not ugly, do not insult me please.Beatings and tear gas are not evidence enough for you to reach that conclusion (my nose goes a tiny teeny bit on the left but thats all)

Then why did your pimp throw you out on the street?

He did not.i am a hapilly working woman making an honest living.Now take a bath and relax, we will continue tommorow, goodnight

Kirjutas Soykirim, 23.04.2014 at 16:19

God doesn't exist, he only exists to the people who acknowledge him.

Gibe argument pl0x

Hahah. Really tophats? Look at this punk right here. Is this the guy you are defending? And you have the guts to point out MY insults?

Come on dawg. You're better than that.

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 23:12

Antisemitism is racism you stupid whore racist.
You were beaten and tear gassed because your pimp threw you out on the street for being an ugly whore who didn't earn any money, of this I am 99% sure.
I was only 94% sure before that you were an ugly whore, but the beating and tear gassing takes me to 99%

For what is there to love in an ugly, stupid, antisemitic racist whore?

This is it right here. Threat to his bullshit value system identified -> emotional reaction

The moment you start to dismantle his illusions, survival menchanism (which is still primitive in us humans due to the swift change to modern times - thousands of years is nothing evolutionarily) kicks in, and the jewish monkey goes crazy. Bet he killed a few palestinians in the meantime to discharge his rage.

And I figured that since you're throwing around this antisemitism accusation, well, I might aswell give you a REAL reason to do it:

For what is there to love in an ugly, stupid, jewish, religious, zionist, racist whore?

Biocentrism is an interesting one if anyone is bored and wants to look that up.

Kirjutas Goblin, 24.04.2014 at 04:46

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 23.04.2014 at 18:52

All this being said, it is unlikely, even after 1000s of years, for there to be a diminishing of biological traits (if any) that are religious-feeling-influencing, because in the 21st century, religious people tend to have more children than non-religious people.

Hm maybe i explained the article wrong ...they discovered a pattern in traits, such as ticker brain cortex in certain individuals who where more spiritual. Spirituality not being necessaraly related to religiousness and spirituality doesnt have to be combined with organised religion.

btw. i found some interesting videos ...i remember you dividing people on atheists and theists, but dont remember you mentioning deists

...video mentions this 3 views, but there are plenty more as pantheism, omnism, panentheism etc. I am a deist.

If I painted with too broad a brush, my apologies.

Religion and Spirituality, Ritual and Intentionality
My argument is, for primitive man, the intersection of something-like-ritual and something-like-spirituality is religion, and my contention is that ritual has definite survival value and that spirituality is a (for lack of a better term) 'side effect' of advanced pattern recognition/some combination of elaborate cognitive states.
Of course this argument is 'received learning' - Dawkins provides a more nuanced presentation in The God Delusion.
He would argue that what I called 'pattern recognition' would include three levels of complexity, culminating in the 'intentional stance' - and a brief bad example would be where a primitive man and modern man would observe two events and come to different conclusions: You might see a sunrise, and take the 'physical stance' that this is a phenomenon connected with the earth's rotation about its axis in conjunction with its orbit around the sun. Ur-Goblin might see 'intentionality' surrounding the phenomena and credit a supernatural cause for the event. Note: Neither could demonstrate the legitimacy of their stance to the other with pure reason alone. Finally, I argued that much of what provided optimal survival value for premodern humans is contrary to optimal behavior in a postmodern world - but as conditions for reproduction are not affected for suboptimally-behaving postmodern 'spiritual' cavemen, the old traits are likely to remain with us perpetually - there's no evolutionary pressure to change.

God-Free Supernatural
I have mentioned deists in other discussions, but not this one (I think). During the dawn of the 'age of enlightenment', deists were today's atheists: Atheism-back-in-the-day didn't provide a 'satisfying' source for morality or human rights, and calling oneself a 'deist' provided adequate 'god' cover for rational people against ad hominem attacks by religious fundamentalists. Also, deism is more intellectually satisfying than a traditional worldview: Something starts it off, then backs away allowing the clockwork to run its course.

All that being said, broadly, atheism and theism are about one's belief state in 'deity' - and 'deity' embodies some form of 'intentionality' (see what I did there?). I am very surprised (glad) the discussion took this turn. Earlier I had mentioned that 'deity' may or may not assume the form of one or more beings.

Naive/Lay Buddhists, Muslims and Christians have a particular view of their religion.
Theologians and mystics inside of these traditions (especially with Buddhism) have a very different view of God than their naive counterparts. God is a force, or 'everything' in its totality, and to ascribe anthropomorphic characteristics to this 'all' is a human mistake due to our cognitive inability to comprehend the totality.
I mention Buddhism, because in much of Asia, Buddhism boils down to idol-and-ancestor worship.
For many even-lay-practitioners of Buddhism in the West, *all* objective existence is denied; 'manifestation of phenomena' such as a *chair* or *god* are consensual (we all agree to ...) hallucinations (... attribute properties to something that doesn't objectively exist) of minds that don't objectively exist, anyway.

This *advanced* (so-called because it is highly abstract and complex) metaphysical worldview of 'radical' Buddhism is indistinguishable from the metaphysical view of the universe provided by philosopher-physicists: There is no 'objective' world, or time, or space: no god, no chair, no 'us' - merely various states of energy which deceptively appear to coalesce into being based upon temporary local conditions, appreciated by minds which may-or-may-not have objective existence, either.

I appreciate any reader's patience here, and please forgive the leaps I must make to condense thousands of years of metaphysics into a few paragraphs.

So, the (for lack of a better term) 'all' that is the multiverse isn't an entity, and therefore not a deity. It does not possess the attribute of intentionality. It does not manifest into being (but we might fool our non-existent selves into thinking so). Proponents of this worldview would call it 'natural', but scientists would not.
- The proposition is not falsifiable, and cannot be tested.
- It makes claims about the ultimate nature of being (in this case, non-being).
- (unlike Pastafarians) Its proponents are sincere.
- Its principles are logically consistent and non-contradictory (valid).
- The proposition offers strong explanatory value (meaning) for the universe.

If the proposition above were presented by a Buddhist to a theologian, the theologian would label it as a 'nontheistic religion'. A philosopher would consider it to be a metaphysical conjecture. Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris would reject the proposition *out of hand* as it is a religious claim without testable/falsifiable propositions.

The same proposition presented by a physicist:
- Theologian: No opinion as it is a scientific conjecture.
- Philosopher: A metaphysical conjecture.
- Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins: An incomplete scientific conjecture - it lacks falsifiable propositions.

The proponents of the proposition are Atheists - they don't believe in the objective existence of *anything* much less gods.
Atheism, embodied, has no particular opinion on the subject, as no deity is invoked. RELIGION HATERS who also are atheists would evaluate the claim based on its claimant - if scientific, as a scientific claim, if religious, as with any religion.

Only the philosopher would call the thing presented by one authority and the thing presented by another authority the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_stance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions

Haha I believe zombie was joking around there. He even demonstrated his sarcastic and intentionally counter-intuitive argument (my assumption) towards khal with propositional logic. Quite comical I would say.

I could be wrong, but I think you're picking out parts of his posts for the benefit of whatever it is you're trying to prove to his detriment, when he clearly brought a more broad and enticing argument.

Nevertheless, watch the insults. I could have closed this thread long ago.

Yeah sure whatever lol.the only one who was joking was me.If i said those things tophats you would be all over me.But i dont mind anyway, i found all this sharade very funny and it just gave me proof to support my arguments
Also i needed to "inform" you guys, that emotionall intelligence and character maturity > knowledge and wits, every day.If you cant even identify and control your own emotions, you wont go far, no matter how smart or educated you are.Point proven.gg

All of you were emotional and immature from my perspective. But you know, that's just one opinion.

Kirjutas tophat, 24.04.2014 at 18:19

Haha I believe zombie was joking around there.

It's only sexist if men do it.
It's only insults if Unleashed does it.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 24.04.2014 at 19:16

Yeah sure whatever lol.the only one who was joking was me.If i said those things tophats you would be all over me.But i dont mind anyway, i found all this sharade very funny and it just gave me proof to support my arguments
Also i needed to "inform" you guys, that emotionall intelligence and character maturity > knowledge and wits, every day.If you cant even identify and control your own emotions, you wont go far, no matter how smart or educated you are.Point proven.gg

I am a Briggs-Myers ENTJ over ten years of semi-annual testing (20+ tests).
In regards to EI, I can tell you that I my arguments were nothing but a response.
Defense is not defensiveness, and (not that I am surprised) you missed the point. I have a very high degree of EI, and rarely allow my emotions to rule my behavior: Certainly not on the web.

You make assumptions about who I am based on what I write, then share your execrable opinions.
I submitted you to a similar exercise - though I would have imagined that the obvious invalid reasoning would have been a key to my sarcasm. And when it comes to direct, irrelevant name calling insults, find somewhere where I was the first and I will apologize to that person.

Finally, if you were to call me an economic migrant who was employed in the sex industry I would be no more insulted than if you called me a Jewish person.
If you were to call me stupid, I would tend to agree with you.

There is nothing which prevents an economic migrant employed in the sex industry, or a Jewish person, from making valid arguments and presenting credible evidence for those arguments.
As to me being stupid, I could only say: compared to whom?

Kirjutas Unleash altt, 25.04.2014 at 02:39

Kirjutas tophat, 24.04.2014 at 18:19

Haha I believe zombie was joking around there.

It's only sexist if men do it.
It's only insults if Unleashed does it.

Please find an indication of gender in my response to Khal.
If one exists, I assure you it was unintentional.

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 24.04.2014 at 19:16

Yeah sure whatever lol.the only one who was joking was me.If i said those things tophats you would be all over me.But i dont mind anyway, i found all this sharade very funny and it just gave me proof to support my arguments
Also i needed to "inform" you guys, that emotionall intelligence and character maturity > knowledge and wits, every day.If you cant even identify and control your own emotions, you wont go far, no matter how smart or educated you are.Point proven.gg

You deserve no mercy, and have shown none, but this is not vengeance - sensible people don't take revenge on animals, inanimate objects or other unthinking things, because it neither usefully deters future undesirable behavior nor is the thing able to understand punishment. In my experience, it doesn't even produce catharsis.

You are a contemptible antisemite and anti-intellectual who is also mysteriously apparently able to determine my 'Jewishness' via textual analysis.
I do enjoy pointing that out to *others* - but I don't expect this identification to change your behavior, merely to permit what you say to be taken in context.

All whilst claiming to love science.

@ zombieyeti

Nobody cares just stop crying.Also stop lying
You have engaged in the most absurd hate filled racist rage post i have ever encountered in my time here and you should just admit it and apologize.You called me ugly,Albanian whore,thrown to the street by my pimp stupid,fuckwit,retard,animal and many many others all because i just called you Jewish..You said you despise and hate me, all because i have different opinions and dont agree with you.
Everybody who read your posts (except tophats) are witness to how mentally unstable you are.
To ease your obvious curiosity,i am 3 generations Greek, originally descended from Sicilly, Italy.I consider my self Greek but i have much love for Italy and i enjoy playing with it in the aw map.I also have no problem with Albanians, like you obviously do, concidering the fact you have shown yourself be racist towards them.
I am out of this thread, but keep in mind, while i was never really insulted cause im all about fun and i had lots of it here, i really hate double standards and hypocrisy, so until you man up and apologize, im gonna use every ammunition you gave me in this thread, against you, whenever i feel like it.Ciao

Kirjutas Khal.eesi, 25.04.2014 at 09:54

You have engaged in the most absurd hate filled racist rage post i have ever encountered in my time here and you should just admit it and apologize.You called me ugly,Albanian whore,thrown to the street by my pimp stupid,fuckwit,retard,animal and many many others all because i just called you Jewish..You said you despise and hate me, all because i have different opinions and dont agree with you.

And all tophats can say is: Unleashed, stop insulting, be thankful I didn't lock the thread.

Well unleashed we have a saying here, it translates to something like "its better to loose your eyes, than your good reputation".Certainly applies here

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

WHAT? WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR MORALITY FROM? ARE YOU A SATANIST? WHO CREATED THE UNIVERSE THEN? YOU CAN'T DISPROVE GOD. BRING ME PROOF THAT HE'S NOT REAL OR BURN IN HELL - your average religious retard

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:46

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

I believe god doesn't exist, therefore he doesn't

Kirjutas Tunder4, 25.04.2014 at 11:47

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:46

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

I believe god doesn't exist, therefore he doesn't

I beleieve God exists. Therefore he does.

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:46

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

This and everything the universe and life were/is an accident.

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:49

Kirjutas Tunder4, 25.04.2014 at 11:47

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:46

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

I believe god doesn't exist, therefore he doesn't

I beleieve God exists. Therefore he does.

It doesn't matter how correct your formula to determine god existence is, if any of it is wrong, then the result is wrong, in this case my argument entirely destroys your credibility.

Kirjutas Tunder4, 25.04.2014 at 11:56

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:49

Kirjutas Tunder4, 25.04.2014 at 11:47

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:46

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

I believe god doesn't exist, therefore he doesn't

I beleieve God exists. Therefore he does.

It doesn't matter how correct your formula to determine god existence is, if any of it is wrong, then the result is wrong, in this case my argument entirely destroys your credibility.

*facepalm* Your argument is an opinion. Opinions =/= truth

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 11:54

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:46

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

This and everything the universe and life were/is an accident.

And how?

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:57

Kirjutas Tunder4, 25.04.2014 at 11:56

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:49

Kirjutas Tunder4, 25.04.2014 at 11:47

Kirjutas Guest, 25.04.2014 at 11:46

Kirjutas 4Chan, 25.04.2014 at 10:42

Nobody ever told me about God.

Probably fake though.

Gibe argument pls.

I believe god doesn't exist, therefore he doesn't

I beleieve God exists. Therefore he does.

It doesn't matter how correct your formula to determine god existence is, if any of it is wrong, then the result is wrong, in this case my argument entirely destroys your credibility.

*facepalm* Your argument is an opinion. Opinions =/= truth

My argument is only a clone of the argument you and other religious fags use.
As you see, it had no grounds in logic, therefore the belief in god is ilogical and absurd.