Improvements to casual game creation?

TL;DR version
Joining casual games is mostly done by latejoining during t1. This is unfair as the game creator gets reinforcements and others don't. Casual game creation should be changed to fix this problem. Do you agree?


Problem
Currently, the way we create casual games is based exactly on quick games: lobby -> players join -> start game. This is fine, except that in casual games, most players don't join before the game starts so they have to latejoin during turn 1. The problem with this is that joining during turn 1 gives you no reinforcements to use. The game creator, on the other hand, has full reinforcements and can expand fully on t1. He can even cap you if he likes!

As it is now, the solution we use to get around the problem is that we trust the game creator to keep the game fair and not build any units. Still, I see countless games, mostly started by beginners, where the game creator uses his full reinforcements... The only real workaround as it is now is to have everyone present in the lobby at game creation. But this kind of defeats the whole point of having a casual game in the first place. After all, the main advantage of casuals is that you can play without problem with ppl from different time zones, at a time of your choosing. It should not be necessary to have everyone there at the same time at the start of the game! And if everyone is there at the start, you might as well just play a quick game anyways... I'll add as an example that we've been trying to get a casual CW started with United Power for weeks now and can't manage to find a good time (it's a 5v5 so we need 10 people from many different time zones to be on at the same time to start it... not easy!). Another good example is the Royal Rumble tournament where even many veteran players were surprised by the odd way casual games are started in AW (link).


Proposed solution
The solution is simple. Change the way casual games are started. One way that has been suggested before a long time ago (link) would be to delay the start of the game until all players have joined. Another solution would be a persistent lobby where people can click "join game" & leave and still be in the game when it starts at a later time. The country selection phase would also need to be changed to take this into account, especially for team games. You'd need to have another 12/24/48h period to allow country picks in the same order as would normally occur in team games.

If it is not possible to change the lobby system yet, a more simple fix that I've suggested before (link) would be an option to disable building & moving units on turn 1. That way, everyone gets an even start on turn 2. Ideally, you'd have even have a "turn 0" where no one can do anything and then things get started normally on t1 so that the reinforcement cycle isn't screwed up.

What do you think?


***
EDIT: Modified my suggestion to take into account country picking for team games.
EDIT2: Removed the bit about casual CWs as it contained wrong info. As it is now, you can't latejoin CWs at all, so everyone needs to be there at start. Ofc, the persistent lobby suggestion would make it much easier to set up casual CWs!

Support

A picking phase for the first 24 hours, kind of like an autohold as you said would be great. I would like to play more casual games, especially on larger maps, but this is one of the issues that stops me from doing so.

I like the auto hold idea too.

YEs i agree

Support.

I might actually play causal games if this is implemented.

Kirjutas EndsOfInvention, 11.02.2014 at 12:04

I might actually play causal games if this is implemented.

same!

Support

The only way i can play a cw game is casual map

Wait if this is change to your version i can play tournament.Because i don't have all the time in a day and sometime i can get disconnected .

Definitely support for improvement!
Note: Just like with quick games, we would have the problem (much magnified) of having the Game Host changing the game parameters before the start of game. Lure 'em in with a reasonable sounding game, then change game parameters.
So, I vote yes, but conditionally, because Evil Could Still Happen.

The above problem, like so many others, could be addressed (but not resolved) by setting up a formal reputation system ... which as a bolt-on, might be easier to implement than re-coding the various modules of the game. A formal reputation system doesn't fix evil either but it will address it.

Kirjutas zombieyeti, 11.02.2014 at 17:38

Definitely support for improvement!
Note: Just like with quick games, we would have the problem (much magnified) of having the Game Host changing the game parameters before the start of game. Lure 'em in with a reasonable sounding game, then change game parameters.
So, I vote yes, but conditionally, because Evil Could Still Happen.

The above problem, like so many others, could be addressed (but not resolved) by setting up a formal reputation system ... which as a bolt-on, might be easier to implement than re-coding the various modules of the game. A formal reputation system doesn't fix evil either but it will address it.

Hmmm. I think you could just abandon during the country selection phase if the host makes a change to settings (just like you can in quick games). Ofc there will always be the problem of a majority changing the settings. But that's an entirely different issue.

This suggestion's main objective is to make starting casual games easier! Especially CWs.

I support!

Support

Support, this would make thing so much easier.

I want to make a fair 24hr casual game so i support

Honestly, who cares? Just choose New Zealand or some desolate place far from the action and you're home free.

Kirjutas Brandyjack, 05.03.2014 at 20:52

Honestly, who cares? Just choose New Zealand or some desolate place far from the action and you're home free.

Yeah, you don't get attacked on turn 1 but you also lose the game.
Who cares? People that would like turn 1 in casual games to be fixed. Also, people that would like to have casual CWs.